Sowing the Seeds for Successful Sales Calls with Tiny Marketing Actions

As entrepreneurs, we tend to feel like we have to do it all when it comes to our marketing. With so many different platforms and strategies at our disposal, it’s easy to put our hands in too many pots at the expense of focused, meaningful engagement with our ideal prospects and clients.

However, your marketing strategy doesn’t have to be all comprehensive or revolve around grand gestures to make an impact. In fact, small, targeted actions that build up over time can pack much more of a punch, as they allow us to build long-term relationships based on trust that keep giving over time.

This idea is the foundation of the Tiny Marketing Actions (TMA) framework created by Pamela Slim, award-winning author, speaker, and business coach, who works with intellectual property-based businesses to scale their impact and reach. Pam joined Dr. Nadia to discuss the ins and outs of TMAs and how they can accumulate into a larger marketing strategy that will help warm up (ideal!) leads for more successful sales conversations.

Introducing Pamela Slim

00:02 – Nadia

Welcome to another episode of Straight Talk About Sales with Dr. Nadia. And I’m super excited to have with me today’s guest, Miss Pamela Slim. Hi, Pam!


I am so excited to be here.


Oh my gosh, I can’t wait for us to dive in and talk about all things that you do. Well, marketing, but before I want to read your bio so everyone knows just how amazing you are, as I already know.

00:27 – Nadia

So, Pamela Slim is an award-winning author, speaker, and business coach who works with small business owners ready to scale their businesses and IP, aka intellectual property. She is the author of Escape from Cubicle Nation, Body of Work, and her latest book, The Widest Net, which is also accompanied by her new podcast, The Widest Net Podcast.

00:58 – Nadia

Pam and her husband Darrell co-founded the K’é Mainstreet Learning Lab in Mesa, Arizona, where they host scores of diverse community leaders and regular small business programming. So, we are so excited to have you on the podcast with us today.


Yay. I can’t wait. We are like the peanut butter and jelly, because I’m marketing and you’re sales. Like, we go together.


And that was one of the reasons why I wanted us to have this conversation, because I know in my work, while we don’t focus on the marketing, what happens on the marketing side definitely impacts the sales. And as a person who is often having those sales conversations, I can tell when something is off with the marketing.

01:42 – Nadia

Like, uh, I’m not necessarily sure what needs to change, but something needs to be fixed. So, I wanted to start our conversation today… well actually, I want to start with you just kind of sharing a little bit more about how you’ve gotten to where you are right now in the work that you do with your clients.


Yeah, so my journey…I think there are two threads that have gone through the last, whatever, 35 years of my professional journey, 26 of which have been working for myself. And those are training and development and community building. And so, training and development really is a thread I was…my last real job, 26 years ago, was director of training and development at Barclays Global Investors. And so, I really fell in love with that field. I fell into it; my original major in college was community development, economic development. Using non-formal education as a tool for social and economic change – in Latin America, actually – was my focus. So, I lived in Mexico and Colombia and Brazil. So, I always had the world-changing, really equity-focused work at heart, and in doing the early work in college, I just realized this doesn’t make any sense for this 19-year-old white girl from California to be in Colombia, like teaching anybody anything. If anything, they were teaching me a bunch of things. And the whole model of that kind of expatriate development just didn’t really sit right with me.

So, I’m so thankful to everything that I learned, because a lot of the frameworks and methods and grassroots development informed work that I did over the years and in various ways. So, twists and turns took me into being a management consultant for ten years once I left my full-time job. Then spending about the last 16 years doing early-stage startup, where I found so many people wanting to leave corporate to start a business. And I really learned by doing. I say I’m an author practitioner, so I pay attention to what people need. I build models and frameworks that eventually somehow turn into books. And that’s what I’ve been doing for the last 26 years.

What Are Tiny Marketing Actions?


I love it. We are so glad that you do your work. So, I have had the opportunity to sit on the teal couch. If you ever have a chance to come to Mesa and sit on the teal couch, I highly recommend it. And this was when I was first introduced to your concept around Tiny Marketing Actions (TMAs). Because even in my own work, I felt like I was – and still am sometimes – reminded, ‘Pam says do the tiny things, Nadia.’ Because you don’t want to eat the whole elephant, like, right now.

And it’s like, how do I stay consistent in my marketing? Stay, you know, aligned in my marketing so that I don’t run into sales issues later, right. But you know, how do I balance all of that? So, I love this concept. So, I would love for you to start talking, you know, share about Tiny Marketing Actions and how we leverage them and the benefit of taking those actions in our business.


Yes. So, the context for Tiny Marketing Actions is probably the same thing you look at and talk about on the sales lens, which is, first when you’re looking strategically at the kinds of marketing activities that would make the most sense for your business. I have, in The Widest Net, a framework that’s really based on the ecosystem that surrounds your

05:00 – Pam

ideal clients. And you and I are examples, as I said, of peanut butter and jelly partners, where our clients can work with me to do more of the strategic marketing design, and then they’re going to need to work with you to do the sales. They probably also work with CPAs. They work with our friend La’Vista Jones on operations. They could work with Isha Cogborn on positioning and media. There generally are a whole bunch of other people that are surrounding our ideal clients as an example of places we can look for connections and marketing activities.

So, when you zoom up, and you say, “What are the best podcasts I could be on, or events that I might speak at or attend, or referral partners?” When you have that strategic picture, the way I find that you actually make progress is in breaking down the connection steps into small, manageable pieces that you do consistently,

05:55 – Pam

daily, weekly, or monthly. I know we’re wired differently. Some people like to work just in little bits every day; other people like to have a deep dive of potentially getting content done, for example, on one day, that they roll out for the next two weeks. But the idea is when, especially when you look in the context of relationships, it’s often

06:18 – Pam

the result of a lot of small, tiny touches. And I think we’ve gotten way too much into the launch mentality – I call it this tidal wave of marketing – where we just work ourselves up to be having some kind of an offering. And behaviorally, what ends up happening – I’ve been guilty of this myself – is the entrepreneur is so focused on program design in the marketing materials, in the funnel, in the sequences, that by the time they pick up and they’re ready to go out to the market and just share with everybody what’s happening, sometimes there’s crickets, because there’s been no connection that’s happening because everybody is just behind the scenes.

So, that’s why I’m a fan of just little outreaches on a daily, weekly, monthly basis that ended up leading to much more consistent activity. But I like to frame it in the context of strategy, because it’s not just doing any old thing, any old time. It’s defining: what are the critical marketing activities?

What Do Tiny Marketing Actions Look Like?


And what could some of these actions look like? Because you know, sometimes we overcomplicate even something that’s so simple as trying new marketing actions. So, when you think about Tiny Marketing Actions, even from a strategic standpoint, like, what could that potentially look like for an entrepreneur?


So, I’ll give you two concrete examples. One of them is right in your phone – yours, mine, everyone’s. Which is to open it up, scroll through your contacts, and be like, ‘When was the last time I actually, like, reached out and said hi to that person who referred me business, to that past client, to somebody I’ve been thinking about and not reaching out to?’ and simply sending a quick message. I’m a fan of GIFs. I like to laugh. So, sometimes I like to send an encouraging word, a GIF, something. But just that little touch – you can be in a five-minute break between calls, you could be in line at a cafe. Think about that. If you’re doing that on a consistent basis over time, and really just looking at, ‘Who made it to my phone, and what am I doing to stay connected?’ it’s surprising sometimes what makes a difference.

The other thing, which is a favorite I did with my good friend, Rohit Bhargava, who runs Idea Press Publishing and also writes the Non-obvious Newsletter…he was here; I was doing a strategic intensive. No, no, I wasn’t doing that yet. He was in town speaking, and so, he was visiting the Learning Lab, and I just told him more clearly about the refreshed update to the work that I was doing currently, because we’ve known each other a long time. I said, you know, ‘These days, I’m working with people who have a pretty big platform, who are thought leaders in their space, who are really wanting to scale their business through monetizing their IP, especially through licensing and certification.’ He was like, “Oh, that’s me. So, how do we work together?”

09:01 – Pam

I was like, ‘Okay, so, oh wait.’ That’s actually a sales conversation.

I had my one of my friends, Rob Lawrence, who’s an audio engineer in the UK, where we did this exercise for Tiny Marketing Actions, he told his sister more clearly what he did. And she was like, “That’s what you do?” And she referred him a client. So, that is something that’s really a concrete example. We have been doing often so much work to know the current offers and positioning and what you’re doing.

My last favorite thing, I’ll say, that was more a brand…I reached out during the pandemic times. I’m a customer of GoDaddy. And so, I got one of their emails, and I noticed that they were doing webinars on different business topics just for their customers. And so, I just responded to the contact that was in the newsletter and said, ‘Hey, I’m a local person. I’m a coach. I often do work with brands. I’d be happy to do a webinar on’ – you ready? – ‘Tiny Marketing Actions.’

10:00 – Pam

And they were interested. They set it up. I ended up doing a webinar that had 4,000 people the first time. They liked it so much we did a follow up. They liked that so much they invited me to speak at their customer conference. So, that was just in the moment saying, ‘I think I could do that. That would be me.’ And that’s how it happens.

Making Network Connections: A Relational Approach


Oh, my gosh, I love it. You know, I just broke it down. Because I don’t know about listeners or even yourself, Pam, but I can overcomplicate things. But I think back to when I shifted and started the agency, right? So, we shifted from doing a lot of leadership development training to, afterwards, sales – two very different things. How I got my first several clients was doing exactly what you said. I would just reach out to people who I already knew, and I’m like, ‘Hey, I just wanted to let you know what I’m doing now, because it’s very different than what I used to do.’ And people would be like, “Oh, I know someone that needs to meet you” or “I have a client that needs to work with you.” And that was how I got my first clients, was just having conversations. It was so simple, and it was so easy.


It’s so true. And I know people are wired differently. I am the extrovert of all extroverts. I love people. I love talking to people. And so, I mean, I know all kinds of close personal details about every person in the Starbucks drive thru window that I go to. Don’t even tell me. Like, I know the businesses their parents are starting, I know about the breakups, I know about, like, all the things. But it’s often just because of having this curiosity of just paying attention. And if somebody says, even where, you know, you’re waiting in line to get your drink – here in the desert, it’s so hot that we can’t get out of our cars to get the coffee, so we would do drive thru for Starbucks. But you know, somebody, like, they say, “Oh, hey, how’s your day going?” And then you just bounce it back. ‘How’s your day going?’ You know, or like, ‘What are you working on? What are you interested in?’ And you just never know exactly who is going to know whom.

And so, I think the key is to be authentic and be yourself. If you’re not such a busybody like I am, then think about small ways that maybe you can do this outreach via text. Social media can be good that way also.

And I think, especially for the reach out, one of the areas where people get really stuck is when we think about the point where we need to make a sale. So, you’re like, I need to fill this program; I need to make a sale so I have money coming in to pay my bills. That’s the point often we can feel awkward, if that’s the moment that we’re reaching out to somebody we haven’t talked to in three years. It’s a little weird if I’m like, ‘Hey, Nadia, I know we haven’t talked to each other. Would you like to come to my retreat?’ Occasionally people say yes. But the fact is, that’s the kind of that warm-up work that we want to be doing through time. So that way, by the time you get ready to have something to offer, it’s really good to have tiny marketing actions that are not directly connected to just, like, asking for something. Just a love letter, a check-in.


Yeah, I love that. I feel the same way, and it’s something that I didn’t even realize was very related to TMAs. But it’s like having those connections and really focusing on the actual relationship. I think sometimes in our day and age right now: one, it’s so fast paced, and it’s everything is like now, now, now, now, now. And, like you said, it’s having those touch points with no real expectation in that moment. I just want it to connect and say hi, because like you said, you never know who they’re connected to, you never know when they’re in need of something. But you don’t want to be at that point where you’re in need, and now you’re needing to reach out, because it is really awkward. And that’s when you start to feel really sleazy in sales, right? It’s like,

13:42 – Nadia

‘Errrgh.’ So, it’s really important to really have that focus on relationship, which is why I like TMAs so much. They’re so good.

Building an Ecosystem

13:51 – Nadia

Can you talk more about the ecosystem? You mentioned that earlier about, you know, some of the things that you talk about in The Wideset Net around this ecosystem and how we can really build that out from a marketing standpoint, which obviously would then lead to sales and revenue in your business. Talk more about how we start to think about an ecosystem or even build an ecosystem in our own businesses or in our own worlds?


Yes, so the ecosystem model that I have in the book, it’s based on an ecosystem map that I created that has ten different segments of just places, in-person or online, where our ideal clients are looking for answers to their core problems and challenges. For both of our clients, it’s probably making more sales, right? Generating more leads and making more sales, as an example.

I contrast it… we think conceptually about the way a lot of people talk about building a business, which is building an empire. And I don’t think we’re very thoughtful sometimes about exactly what we are saying when we say, ‘I want to build an empire.’ And people can have certain views that empires are fine. Personally, when I look in history, they’ve been really good for a few people at the top, and they’ve been pretty terrible

15:03 ­– Pam

for everyone else. It’s a little bit of, like, domination. And so, personally, I…when you think about that, you have to choose a business model in a vocabulary and metaphors that really relate to you and your clients. So, what’s important is that it’s resonant, not that it’s what I think. But for me, for the kind of folks that I work with, often they’re kind of turned off by that idea that an empire culture, everything has to be about you. And often there’s this combination as well as you as the business owner of really being that central point of focus, as opposed to really having the purpose of your business and the focus of your body of work as what’s in the center or having your client or customer in the center.

So, in the ecosystem model, you have your ideal client that’s defined by their problem challenge or aspiration, really what they’re trying to do. So, as we said before, like, to get more leads of good, great quality, well-qualified clients and then to be able to have conversations about sales that don’t feel awkward or uncomfortable or manipulative. And given that – this is from a Method of Audience definition from my friend Susan Buyer, who’s here locally in the Phoenix area – and so, when you think about that, notice we haven’t really said anything about demographics, about gender, you know, about race, about age, about what kind of car we drive or shoes we wear. That sometimes is the area where a lot of people get stuck. And if we think about it, just from defining it first by problem challenge or aspiration, all of a sudden, we can start to visualize, like, what would be all the things that somebody who wants to grow their business would need in order to really realize their goal? And that’s where we realize, ‘Oh, they better have some great branding, should have some nice photographs, they need a bank account. They probably need some accounting software.’ And as soon as you start to look at that, you can begin to look for places where they’re already looking for information, which can have a lot of referral partners.

Some of the segments in the example I use for GoDaddy…that’s kind of a meta example, when we look at some of the cases of brands that serve our ideal clients. If you have a strong body of work, you could be somebody who is an influencer, somebody who creates content for those brands, that ends up sometimes being one to hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of customers.

And that’s the kind of thing, you start to scale it where you say, “Oh, what associations might my ideal client belong to?” And imagine if you’re going in – and I don’t know, what’s an example of, like, a service professional for you, Dr. Nadia, that you’d love to work with? Or do you have any type of profession that’s fun for you?


You know, I have fun working with the numbers people, so, you know, like, your accountants or bookkeepers. Like, I’ve had a lot of fun working with those clients.


I love that. So, such a great example. If we were just to Google – we’re not because we’re in a podcast interview right now – but if we were just to Google associations of accountants, associations of CPAs, associations of bookkeepers, we would find probably a whole list. Some would be local, regional, national, international. And imagine if you just went on a campaign in 2023 to be the person who’s going to name the association, who has a standard webinar that is amazing, that’s really tailored to folks in that profession, where you’re talking about selling in a way that’s going to make them feel comfortable. By you doing those activities, each time you might reach a different chapter. Or let’s say you speak at a national conference. That can be hundreds of thousands of different, you know, connections right there.

So, you can begin to see as you’re working in this ecosystem and noticing, okay, for those accountants, what is their favorite podcast? Like, where’s the place where they’re looking for the best information? What are the tools that they’re using? That’s where you can start to identify the places where you can show up. And what I like sometimes when you look at the combination between, like, a tool, especially software as a service, and events, there are many companies who produce events that are software companies. Dreamforce, Salesforce. This conference is a gigantic business conference, but it’s all based on people who are using their software.

So, you can begin to see where you can identify – usually for most people, it’s not all ten segments of the ecosystem wheel – but just the very best places where you can begin to activate a marketing strategy.

Being the “Weirdo in the Room”


I love that. I remember from my time on the couch, we walked through this. And it was really interesting to kind of shift the mindset, because before, you know, a lot of times I would go to events where there were a lot of people like me, you know, that had a similar goal. And part of the challenge with leveraging this framework was I would be

20:00 – Nadia

invited to go to rooms where there may be only one person that’s, you know, really focused on the sales part because, like you said, I’m going into a room maybe full of accountants, right. So, it really started to kind of shift how I thought about my marketing and how I approached it to just make it a lot easier. And I think that that is one of the beautiful things about the work that you do, is you’re not always going into a room full of coaches, right? I always go to events, hanging out with my coach friends, and it’s like, ‘Nadia, what? Why?’ But for me, as an introvert, I’m comfortable because those are my people.

But it was, like, “Nadia, let’s invite you to do something different, to get a different result in your business.” And I think that that is one of the benefits of the work that you’re doing, Pam, is just, let’s look at it differently. And let’s be really focused, because like you said, if I only did – and I have my pens, so I can write that down – that in 2023, I’m really focused, and I’m not all over place. Like this is really focused. And I think that that’s also one of the challenges that I see with clients, is like, there are a lot of options out there. How do I choose the marketing actions that are going to get me the results that I desire to see?


That’s right. And I think some of this concept – I call it being the weirdo in the room, where you are the only one of you with a bunch of other people – it is something that can feel a little bit more awkward. There are ways to do that with that concept where it doesn’t literally have to be in a physical room. You could be the only sales expert in the monthly newsletter that goes to all the members of the association talking about something in sales or doing a webinar. That sometimes can feel less overwhelming.

But the key, I think, to being strategic is…I am a woman of method; that is my training and development background. I don’t know why I always use plumbing metaphors, but I always do. I’ve never plumbed a thing in my life. But you can imagine, if we plumbed an entire house, except we didn’t connect the main water line to the water going into the house, it’s not going to work. Or if we connected that one, but then there was some missing link up in the attic, right, for the upstairs and downstairs flow. The same thing is true in The Widest Net method, when you see how your mission connects to your values that connects to a specific way you define your clients and customers that connects to the way you construct your offerings. I’ve built the book really around the steps that are sequential for how it is that you build.

And that’s just more to get the initial framework, because it is something that often you can go from thinking like, ‘Where could I find any customers?’ to all of a sudden, ‘Oh my gosh, I’m massively overwhelmed because there are so many more than I thought.’ That’s where you practice this accordion principle, where you go way out and you see their totality the market, and then you zero in. And it’s often using decision factors like, ‘Where do I already have some strong connections? Where might be a place where my own expertise and experience could be very resonant and a positive thing for this audience? Or what is something that’s really easy for me?’

I just interviewed my good friend Lynette Khalfani on my podcast, who is The Money Coach, and she does tons of media. So, I’m always like watching Good Morning America, and I’m like, ‘There she is. There’s Lynette!’ She’s a former journalist. She has no problem getting her makeup on and going on national television. It would take me about three months to get ready. Like, could I do it? Probably. Do I want to? I don’t know, if Good Morning America calls. But it would not really be fun or, for me, an engaging kind of activity, because I’m a writer, and I think I would just be much more self-conscious about it. Whereas for her, it’s something that’s just in her DNA. She does it all the time as part of her exposure and marketing activities. So, those are the kinds of things to think about to begin to narrow it in.

And then I find, as we go through each year of our business, often we have a little strategic shift. We can make choices about what we want to do, what we want to scale. And that’s where we’re always updating what we’re doing.

Strategic Planning for Tiny Marketing Actions


I love that. I love that you focused on doing the thing that you’re actually going to do. That’s a good note, because it’s like, there are a lot of things that you could do. But what are you actually going to do consistently? Because that’s also the big piece about tiny marketing actions; they are things that you can do on a consistent basis. And so, not always trying to follow the trend, because we can sometimes be distracted with shiny object syndrome. And so, what are some of the ways that you recommend your clients stay focused, or how do you help them stay focused? Because sometimes we get off track. It’s like, ‘No, no, no, Nadia. Focus.’ How do you help them do that?


Yeah, I think it is really important to have a plan

25:00 – Pam

and then to have planning in your schedule. So at least on a quarterly basis, at a minimum, definitely towards the end of the year, doing the big plan for the year of just thinking about what is the focus that I want to have? Do I want to reach the same audience? What are my key offerings? You know, where are places I want to show up? And then creating a plan so that you know, and you commit to what feels realistic but also interesting to you.

So generally, when you think about, like, a month-long plan, you choose what your primary beacon ­–the beacon is one of the concepts and chapters in the book of a primary vehicle of communication you use to share your own thought leadership. So, where we were just talking about you going to someone else’s watering hole – like you showing up in that CPA Association’s National Conference – where they’ve created the audience for you. Maybe for you, this podcast is the beacon where people can really learn more about your point of view. They can actually meet other ecosystem partners like myself based on the people you interview. And it’s your vehicle of communication, where people really understand your thought leadership and your point of view.

So, when you’re when you’re choosing those things, then you know, ‘Okay, I’m going to be doing a podcast every month or a couple times a month. Here’s the pace and cadence that I have for social media updates.’ I recommend really focusing in on maybe two primary ones, as opposed to trying to be everywhere all the time.

26:32 – Pam

And then, you just want to build things in alignment. And I know it sounds so basic to just be, like, insulting almost. But I have been guilty of not having a direct connection between what I’m talking about and what I’m actually selling. Because I can talk about all kinds of things in 26 years of being in business. Like, what do you want to talk about? Mindset? Operations? Sales? Like, bring it on. But that’s not helpful when you begin to think of what are the core things that you’re actually selling. How do you want to be known?

And so, that’s where a plan says, “Okay, here are the vehicles I’m using. Here’s the rotations that I have.” I like putting it in the calendar so that you know exactly what you have to deliver. And then you show up. I just finished a newsletter before the interview today. And I’m like, ‘Okay, I knew today I needed to write a newsletter.’ I already had the format down. I had been thinking about and planning the topic I was going to write about. So, it wasn’t a big deal. Writing a newsletter is a little bit more than a tiny marketing action, because it did take a few hours to get done. But when I think of the little bits of preparation that I had for gathering the information beforehand, can qualify as such.

Overcoming Common Roadblocks: Impatience, Shiny Object Syndrome, and Indecisiveness


I love that. I love that. So, as people are thinking about tiny marketing actions, as you’re rocking their world…they’re like, “Wait, I only have to focus on two social media platforms? And I can take these tiny steps?” Like, what are some of the things,

28:00 – Nadia

what are some of the roadblocks that people have – or you see your clients, the resistance to simplify our marketing? What are some of those things that people come up against? How can they move past that?

28:15 – Pam

A couple of key things: one of them is impatience. And when I think of what it takes to really activate a flow of connection with people and then eventually leads, depending on the market that you’re serving, – so for people who are selling b2b, business to business, or your clients are companies versus people who are selling to individuals – there’s different kinds of sales cycles in connection to where it just takes some time with consistent effort to begin to make progress.

Or, for example, I remember when I ignored LinkedIn forever. Like, I was there because I was there. And I would just respond, but I never shared a thing ever. And then a couple years ago, I was like, ‘You know what? A lot of my clients are really finding LinkedIn to be helpful, and let me try it.’ And so, it took quite a bit of time, a whole number of months of me posting and having crickets before I began to see some engagement there and began to actually use it as an effective tool in business. So, having patience and building in just a patience for knowing that things are going to take a while is one part of

29:25 – Pam

what can be helpful for, you know, getting in the way of that obstacle.

The other thing is the shiny object syndrome. And so, it’s often related to one where you’re like, “But I put out two emails about this offer and two people signed up. And so, I’m just going to create a whole new thing.” Like that’s me. I am the queen of creating something from night to day. ‘Oh, that didn’t work. So, let me just create a whole new program.’ Yep. And so, you get totally distracted. You lose the focus, and you’re not looking at how can I examine what I’m doing that is not working in terms of how

30:00 – Pam

I’m, like, not connecting with people. Sometimes it’s not the right offering, but other times, you just might not have the right copy. Or you might not be tuned in to where consumer behavior is. Right now when we’re recording this episode, we’re in September 2022. I don’t know about you, but I’ve noticed with all of my clients and definitely with myself, people have slowed down decision making. It just takes longer. I’m engaging people. I’m having conversations. But I think because of what’s happening in the economy and maybe just also like post-shutdown kind of mental health things, people are just taking their time for decisions, which I like it when people take a time to make a thoughtful decision.

But I think it’s kind of going a little bit more into that territory of fear of committing to anything, where I start to look at that and say, ‘This is actually not going to be helpful’ – whether people work with me or not. Personally, it’s not going to be helpful in times of economic uncertainty or slow down to be slowing down and hesitate to take action. You want to be clear about what you want to do. But it’s actually the best time possible to be planting seeds and reaching out and connecting. So, that’s something: the shiny object syndrome, followed very quickly by build something new and hope they will come. That often doesn’t work.

And then the other thing, you know, is a mindset, personality kind of issue. And I really go around different places with this. One of the things I just wrote about my newsletter is mindset.

31:34 – Pam

I do believe we are fundamentally wired differently. We are not all the same. We have different habits. Gretchen Rubin will say we have different tendencies, her four tendencies, which is that, you know, tests kind of how we’re motivated to take action can look different. I need an external person basically giving me a really dirty look and a couple of emails, right, to really motivate me to get something done. If it’s just my internal motivation, I will generally put it off more. So, we can be wired differently, and we want to create a system of accountability of individual accountability that works for us.

But I also push a little bit with my clients where we have that good deeper conversation. Like, really, are you sure you’re the kind of person who just doesn’t do plans? Are you sure you’re the kind of person who just would rather not get bogged down by structure or look at your financials or look at metrics? I think sometimes we can get in our own way by just limiting beliefs and leaning on patterns that probably had a protective purpose for a good period of time. But when you look forward – and I think especially with things that are related to just having some consistency and a helpful pattern to get things done – that generally is going to reduce stress and make us feel better and be more healthy over time.

So, I’m not saying… I know, my sister, is an example. I love my sister so much. She’s eight years older than me. And she’s just the kind of person who just always gets everything done before it needs to be done. Like she’s just organized, always gets it done. My best friend Desiree is the same way. Drives me nuts. Really? And then I’m the one screaming into the end. And I’ve made changes in those habits, too. I’ve been breaking some of that pattern. But there just are some people who are wired to do that. More power to them.

Don’t set up a structure based on my sister Gretchen or my best friend Desiree, like, if you’re Pam. Find that structure that’s going to work for you, that is really related to your own style. And then really, you know, look in the mirror for those things that are ineffective habits that you might really want to change.

Implementing Tiny Marketing Actions


I love that. This has been such a rich conversation. So, I know we’ve talked a lot about tiny marketing actions. Are there ways that you can support people in mastering the skill of tiny marketing actions and really, honing like you said, planting those seeds, watering those seeds, really setting their businesses up for success right now?


Well, you can definitely read the book where I talk about them, and I do have a class called Tiny Marketing Actions.

34:05 – Pam

I have done classes around this – I need to look back and see the total number of times at different iterations of it – probably for the last, I don’t know, six or seven years. But now I’m doing, I think, my third rotation on Maven, which is a really fun cohort based learning platform. I actually wrote about them in the book because they have a super cool structure. And my friend Wes Kao is the co-founder of that site. So, it’s a lot of interaction. It’s a lot of fun engagement with people. It’s all centered on one platform. So that, I have a new cohort for the fall that’s starting on October 12. So, that is always a fun way to get hands-on support and the energy and motivation of a group.


Yes, and we’ll make sure we have that link in the show notes. And so, Pam, just share with everyone how they connect with you.

34:56 – Nadia

and, you know, to learn more about you the book, the lab, like,

35:00 – Nadia

all the good stuff that you’re doing in the community and for small business owners.


You can find everything at And that’s a place, if you look on the page about the book The Widest Net, there is a complete workbook with all the exercises for the book – no email trade required – that you can find right there for the book. That’s where you can get the link to the podcast, our contact form. So, that’s really the best way that you can learn about everything we’re doing. And we are excited about The Widest Net Podcast. We just started in May, and I just picked it the statistics. We just had our eight hundreth download, which was very exciting just a couple of months in, right. And so, it’s really fun. I’m loving the conversations.

And it’s been a long time. I had a podcast for years with Escape from Cubicle Nation. And then I stopped when I was writing Body of Work and was really waiting for a topic that I felt like I could talk about for five to ten years, which is all about building community, partnerships, growing a business. And I’m like, ‘That’s it. It’s The Widest Net.’ So, it’s been really fun. Thanks to La’Vista Jones and Tanika Lothery, who have really helped me strategically with getting that done and together.

36:14 – Nadia

They’ve helped me, too. They are amazing. We’ll have them on the show, too.

So yeah, thank you, Pam, for joining today. This is such a rich conversation. So, you can get your marketing together so your sales conversations are much, much easier. So, thanks for joining us today.


Thanks for having me.


And thank you all for joining us for another episode of Straight Talk About Sales. We’ll see you soon.


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