Divine Strategies for Entrepreneurship: Doing Business and Sales with God ft. Shae Bynes

Go to the Show Notes here.

Here’s the transcript:


It’s. Welcome to another episode of Straight Talk about Sales. I am so excited for our guest today, Shae Bynes. Welcome, Shae. What’s up, Nadia?        


Good to be here with you. So, okay, I have a list of questions and all kinds of goodness because you know how I am. But one of the things I think I want to start with with you is tell me how you got the name. Name? Chief Fire Igniters.        


Oh, so that’s a funny story. All right, so this was let’s see, Kingdom Driven Entrepreneurs started at the end of 2012. For those who don’t know, that’s the comedian movement that I started for Christ following entrepreneurs. All right, so we had been around for maybe about a year, and around that time, the Lord was really starting to reveal more and more about why we existed and what it was all about. And so there was this period of time that he had led me to do a scripture study on fire.        


And so as I was reading about fire, I was realizing that fire in the scriptures represents God’s power, his presence, his passion, or his love and his purity. Right? And then he gave me the name, your Chief Fire Igniter. It’s like you’re igniting others, their ability to demonstrate those aspects of God in the marketplace. And so I didn’t make up a cutesy name.        


The Lord gave it to me, and I’ve been living it out every day since. She really does live it out. It’s funny. I was doing a podcast. I was being interviewed on a podcast earlier this week, and I mentioned my advisor, who was encouraging certain things, and I was referring to you. And it’s just I constantly think about the time we work together and the things that you’ve ignited.        


Even when I’m not doing them, I’m like, let me get back together, because Shae has access to me. That’s it. It’s like I’m an igniter and an agitator, a little bit of a disruptor. All of those things, all this I love it. I love it.        


I love the work that you’re doing. And I’m really excited about our conversation today because I feel like when it comes to sales, and I know personally, I have this challenge sometimes around we’re the people that make it happen. That’s kind of the reputation we have. Right? And so sometimes it’s challenging when you are a woman of faith and you’re doing things differently.        


And God will say sometimes, like, go sit your hips down somewhere, and your hips right. Well, that’s how he talks to Nadia. You go to your hips out somewhere. And I’ll be like, but I lead a whole sales agency. That’s what we do.        


And those things don’t make sense to me. So we often have those kinds of conversations. And so now you being the author of, Grace Over Grind, I have my copy. Well, actually, technically, this is my husband’s copy.        


So you’re talking about doing things differently and I admittedly have said crazy stuff, like, I’m a member of Team No Sleep and just ridiculous. I look back and I’m like, what was I thinking? And so, one, I want to start this conversation. I think this is relevant. I know I mentioned it in your bio, but how did you even get here?        


Because you didn’t wake up like this. You weren’t always this person that has done this work. So tell us a little bit about your journey that led you here, and then we’ll dive into some of my other questions. Yeah, sure. So something to know about me is that I was super achievement oriented and performance driven as a kid, as a college student, as a corporate employee, and then as a corporate employee, I also have my business on the side.        


So I was also on Team No Sleep, because it’s like, I got to do the work. I got to excel in the workplace to go up the ranks. Also, simultaneously, I want to have options. So I’m doing my business on the side. So I’m doing all the things, right?        


Doing all the things. And there’s nothing wrong with those things. I was doing the things, but I was driven by my performance. I was driven by the achievement. And when you are like that, you can very easily do way too much.        


Even the word grind, Miriam Webster defines it as excessive hard work. And then if you look up hard, hard means unyielding. So it’s like excessive unyielding work. Right? So I was a queen of that.        


I was doing lots of that. And even when I left my corporate career to do full time entrepreneurship, the whole culture of entrepreneurship was around. Get your hustle on, get your grind on. And then you could do like the Jesus friendly version. Well, I’m going to wake, and then I’m going to pray.        


Then I’m going to grind. I’ll just sprinkle some prayer on this crazy, right? Grab a sprinkle of some prayer on him, holy God for a second, and then I’m going to go make it happen. I’m going to grind. So that was my orientation.        


So what had happened was I had this encounter with God. I was sitting in church, and our pastor did a sermon on Matthew 11:28-30. Now, these are scriptures that are commonly known to Moses. When Jesus says, come to me all of those who are weary and heavy laden. He talks about how we will give you rest and how his yoke is easy and his burden is like I had heard it a million times, but this particular day, I heard it in the Message Bible, and it says, are you tired, worn out, burnt out on religion?        


Come to me. Get away with me, and you will recover your life. I’ll show you how to take a real rest. And you were like, Sign me up for that, Jesus. And then there was more walk with me, work with me.        


Watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill fitting on you. Keep company with me and you will learn to live freely and lightly. Everything in me was like, that’s an invitation I want to say yes to.        


And I don’t even really know exactly what all that means, right? But I want more of that. Whatever that is, I want it. Whatever it is. There’s a gap between me and that, and I want to know what that is.        


And that was the beginning of going from doing things primarily in my own strengths and really not even apart from God, just integrity and trying to operate in excellence, the principles of God to, oh, I’m doing this for the glory of God, too. Oh, wait, I’m going to do this with the presence of God. Completely different. Completely different. Completely different.        


And so that was the beginning for me. That was over ten years ago. It’s probably 1111 ish years ago, and I haven’t looked back at it since. Oh, my gosh. Thank God you didn’t, because, poor child, you must snatch your edges and get everybody straight.        


I was part of the launch team. I remember reading this. I think I mentioned it in my review because, you know, Nadia is extra. I was like, stepped on my toes, snatched my edges. No, because there’s just so much in here that speaks to Nadia and how she sometimes operates.        


Because I have my book right here. So on page 63, for those that are listening and don’t have their book yet, get it. You talk about the world’s favor versus God’s favor and part of that, and I wrote it down because I was like, I probably need to put on sticky note, put it on my desk somewhere. You said, what you force through your grind to create, you will have to maintain yourself. Yes.        


You went on to say this easily leads to stress, pride and destruction across multiple areas of your life. Let’s talk about it, because again, I feel especially from a sales perspective, I get it. It’s very pervasive throughout the business and entrepreneurship world. I think I see it a lot more, even greater right in the sales. Part, because you’re right at the end.        


We’re at the close. Right? We’re at the close. We got to make it happen. We get those conversations or pushback or feedback.        


Don’t buy into people’s story when they say they can’t afford it. Girl, you all better figure it gets wild over here sometimes. Yes. Please help set us free. Shake.        


So I think there’s some foundational truths that grab hold of to make some shifts. Right. One of these people hear me say this all the time is that God is the source. Everyone and everything else is a resource. Yes.        


That’s important, because if you are like, I’m at the end here. I’m at the sale. This is me. You can operate in a couple of different really whacked out mindsets. One of them would be that the person on the other end, that potential client, that prospect is the source of the source for you.        


Right. Or flip it. You could also be diluted into thinking that you are the source for that person on the other end. This thing could work both ways. Oh, yeah.        


And so to understand that God is the source is a super important, fundamental truth to grab hold of because it actually changed the orientation of how you engage people. Right? It really does. Yes. So that’s one of those things.        


And really being able to trust God with the outcomes. Like, since this is not your source, you’re not their source and they’re not your source, that should free you when you’re having conversations to just come from that place of service open handed. And in fact, if it’s not a match, and you’re just like, let me see how I can serve them by even sending them to someone else, how can I be a resource for this person? To send them to another resource, that would be better. As opposed to the fear of the hoarding of the fear of they’re the source.        


And so I have to close this sale. Yes. Right. Not only do I have to close this sale, I have to close this sale today.        


So you’ve got the urgency of now because you’re looking at them as the source as opposed to meeting them where they need to be met. Right. So there’s all kinds of things that when we don’t have the right mindset, it then shows up in our actions and puts pressure in places and spaces that doesn’t belong. Yes, it really does. One thing that when I work with my clients, I feel like, look, we don’t let all that go because in all honesty, right, we don’t have any control.        


I heard a speaker recently say, control is an illusion. I was like, Let me write that down twelve times in my own notebook. Right. Because you get all of that. And it’s part of why I ended up starting the work that I do.        


Because I’m like this whole sales training, which I’ll tell you, I’m not doing it, but I need to sell so I can’t continue to be rebellious and not do I need to figure out how to do something that works. But one of the things that I teach is your job as a salesperson, as a business owner, as an entrepreneur, is to show up from a place of service to understand that prospects and needs and how you may or may not, because you mentioned it may not be me, I may need to refer you out. Right. Be able to serve them, and then you share those options, whatever they are, and you’ve done your part. Right.        


I have no control over whether or not you say yes and when you say yes, unless I go wrestle the credit card out of your hand and that presents some other problems, like jail time. I’m not signing. Right. So when you start to shift it and people I don’t have no control over that. So when I go into the conversation, I only have control of what I have control over.        


I show up as my best, I do my part, and I release the outcome. Right. I can’t make you say yes to that. You can try, but the only way you can do that is through manipulation. Oh, yeah.        


And so your only route to try to force the control which you actually don’t have is to operate out of manipulation. Yes. That’s the only tool you have at your disposal which is completely out of alignment with service. Yes. Completely out of alignment with integrity.        


Right. And so if that’s the only tool you’ll have at your disposal to try to enforce the illusion of control that you think you have, where does that leave you? You have the freedom of saying, you know what? Because the other thing is also we talked about like, it has to be right now and all those things, and sometimes you’re not the match. Sometimes you’re feeling like, oh, it needs to be right now, because you’re looking at this like they’re the source.        


The also thing around that is the timing. Like you might actually be the right one, but it might not be the right time for them. And a lot of people will because they have the wrong mindset. Then it’s like the whole right now is based off it’s not even good for them right now. Or you.        


Can we talk about that? Or you yes. Sometimes in either direction, sometimes it’s bad timing for both of you. I remember I have a mentor, and I think that I want to say it was right around a time when they were telling everybody to go home and have a seat. And I met with my mentor and I was like, I feel like God is telling me to not sell.        


Right? That makes no sense. And to release like there were some clients that I was actually told to release. Let them go, bless them, tell them it’s you and not them. Yes.        


Give them a refund and move on. And I was like, this makes absolutely no sense. Right. Not understanding the full magnitude of everything that was going to come along with the pandemic. But then personally, my mother ended up having a stroke a few months later.        


And because I listened begrudgingly I’m not going to say I was really excited about it, but I did listen. Thank God. Yes. When that happened, I didn’t have all these demands on my time that freed me up to fully be present with my family in that time of need. And so, again, sometimes it’s the client or the prospect that’s not ready.        


Sometimes it’s you, you just don’t know that your life is about to get shaken up a little bit. Yes. Here’s the thing. So you just hit on something that I talk about, I think in the Sustainable Rhythms chapter of Grace Over Grind and this whole idea. Because what you did, when we talk about timing and not being the right timing for you, there’s like this thing around God’s timing, around things and God’s timing, which is outside it is within and outside of our focus in on timing.        


You could think that it might be the right timing for you, but that’s because you don’t have sight into what’s coming. So it might look like all the evidence. This is why you partner with God and why you’re sensitive to his leading because he knows all the things. So what you don’t have view of, He has view of. And I talked about an example of this where the Lord had had me take a sabbatical like I had already a planned sabbatical to take for I think it was like three weeks.        


But then he’s like start early and then told me to extend it. And I’m thinking my plan was only for about three weeks. You’re like, what about it? Right? What am I doing?        


But by starting earlier, I then had sight into something going on with my teenage daughter that I would not have seen and then got ahead of what could have been really bad but actually got ahead of it. Yes. And then on the extension side, I didn’t know that we were going to find out that, I mean, my mom passed just like weeks. I ended up going to Atlanta, Georgia and spent what was my last time with my mom.        


I didn’t know about either of those things. Right. It was the sensitivity and the trust and the willingness to follow the leading of the Lord in that thing to do that. And so you’re giving a great example of that. So you had a sustainable rhythm that wasn’t stress filled and all anxiety inducing and all the things because you were willing to go with that flow of, okay, here’s what the Lord’s saying.        


I’m going to do it, even though it kind of doesn’t make sense. And I even don’t even kind of want to do it, but I’m going to do that. And then you saw the beauty of the obedience to walk in that right. You got to see the fruit of that. And so did I.        


Yeah. And those are things that you just cannot, it’s priceless, right? Yeah, priceless to be able to be there, whether it’s your final moments, like when you said the last time you got to be with your mom. I remember even in my own business with my grandmother and having that opportunity and I tell people all the time, you will never regret whether it’s sudden or you know, is coming to have those last moments that you’re able to set things aside to spend that with your loved ones. Like, it’s priceless.        


There’s no price you can put on that. That’s right. None. There is something here that I’m looking because, you know, I have my book right here. Like surrender your to do list to God.        


Yes. Actually, before I think we go there, I think we also need to talk about business meetings with God, which is something you introduced me to only because Nadia is still in, I’m working through this thing, I’m walking it out. I have not arrived, and there is. No such thing as arrival, because as soon as you think you arrive, you just then go into a next level of what you feel like you’re in the beginning of the next stage. You just go from one level.        


Thank you. Because I don’t know, because a lot of times I look at my…, because I write a lot when I have my business meetings with God and I’ll go through and I’m like, what exactly am I supposed to do? That’s a common question that I have. And some days it’s like, I don’t want you to do anything. Trust me.        


Go have a seat, go take a walk, go take a nap. No, because that’s not part of what I do anyhow. Yes.        


So tell us about business meetings with God, and then we can talk more about surrendering our to do list to God. Sure. And that’s actually a part of it. So it’ll come all together, I think so. One of the first things that I did, we talked about how I was like, oh, there’s a gap between where I am and what I just what is that?        


So if I’m thinking, okay, so I have an invitation from God to do business with Him. Well, I’m like, well, if that’s the case, then I need to create the space to cultivate that relationship with Him in the context of business right beyond my oh, I woke up in the morning, I listened to my favorite worship songs, I read my one devotion. Nothing wrong with those things. But I didn’t engage God intentionally as it related to business. And so what I started doing was these daily business meetings with God.        


And so that was being intentional around saying, you know what? I’m going to take an hour. What I would consider in the past have been like, no, that’s core time that I could be doing all the things, doing things on my to do list. You know what? I’m actually going to take an hour and spend with the Lord and see what he wants to talk to me about as it relates to business.        


And so for me, the way that started this is really it’s changed and morphed and done all kinds of things over the years. But where I started was I was like, you know what? I don’t even really know. I need to build confidence that I even hear him well, right? So I was like, you know what, I used to read the scripture for achievement.        


I wouldn’t have said that, but I mean, it was like, I read my chapter today, right? So I would read scripture and I’d say, you know what, instead of trying to do this for achievement, I’m like, okay, let me engage the living word as I’m reading this word, right? So I was asking him to talk to me while I was reading the scripture. So I started engaging scripture differently. Then I would take my to do list and I’d be like, because I’m a to do list girl.        


Me too. These are my priorities from my perspective. This is what I think is important. But what are your thoughts? I mean, I would actually engage, I…        


…had never done this before. I was engaging god. I was having a two way dialogue with the Lord versus my old self, was make all my plans and then if I felt like it, ask them to bless them. Then if I ran into trouble, ask him to fix them. Fix it, Jesus.        


He’s like, I wasn’t even in any of that. What are you talking about? I didn’t even invite you in in the first place. But fix it, right? And so now I’m actually engaging in dialogue, right?        


And now I’m getting a sense for, okay, so there will be things. So I was cultivating intimacy, relationship with God in a new way. And now some people would then say, but then how did you know that God was speaking to you? Like, how did you know? How did you know that thought?        


That wasn’t just you. It wasn’t just you or the pizza that you ate at 11:00 last night. How do you know? Right? And here’s the thing, and this is the freedom.        


This is the freedom I released to many, many people over the years. If what you sense saw, thought, whatever isn’t counter to the character of God, counter to the scripture, then operate as if he actually did speak to you, show you whatever, and take a step in the direction. A step, not a leap, not a leap. Take a step in that direction and watch as you take those steps how he’ll course correct or reveal more or whatever. But you don’t know.        


Like, you don’t know 100%. I’ve been walking this thing out for over a decade. I still don’t know 100%. I don’t need to know 100%. I’m partnered with the one who knows 100% exactly.        


And sometimes you don’t see the full picture until years later. You don’t. There’s things now I only understand that are from seven, eight years ago, right? There’s things he’s revealing to me now that I’m still like, where are we headed with that? What is that about?        


What right? And so I would just be in this rhythm of daily business meetings with God. And so that was helping me grow in relationship with him. It was also helping me to get his perspective on what I was doing, how I was serving, how to show up right, where to slow down, because I’m a fast mover. Where do I need to slow down?        


And for those, by the way, who are listening, who are slow, movers when to speed up. Right.        


Listen, everyone’s got their pace, right? I happen to be, by nature, fast paced, so he had to teach me how to match his pace, which was sometimes fast, but oftentimes he had to slow me down. Yeah. And there’s a lot of people I’ve mentored, many who are, by default, very slow, and then when they start partnering with God, they start partnering with God, Nadia. It’s like but I need, like, three confirmations before I take that step.        


I’m waiting for the dove to come and fly through the window, land on my shoulder, start speaking to me in Spanish, and then give me the interpretation of the Spanish before I will take a step and be like, that was. God, and I’m over here like Do Something!        


So it’s just the fact that we have freedom. Like, where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty, there is freedom. Like, you are free to take steps as you believe, and he is so pleased to do this with you. And as you take steps, say leaps as you take steps, you will see how he will meet you in that place. So that is the combination of, I was surrendering my to do list, which is like it’s like, here’s my to do list, but what are your thoughts about it?        


So if I had a priority but I since he had a different priority, I yield. I yield to his priority if I think it should be done this way. But he’s showing me that I might be in a traditional mode of how I do something, but then he suggests not more than suggests, recommends, instructs another way, I’m going to do it that way. There was a time, Nadia, years ago, when and I never would have done this on my own, where we had a product that we sold. And he’s like, I want you to change this to pay your own price.        


Who does that? And why would I do that? You do realize this is a business, right? This is not a nonprofit. This is not a nonprofit charitable organization.        


Why would I create a product and then say, hey, pay whatever you want? But I did. I was like, all right, I’ll surrender the wisdom that I have to higher wisdom, which is his. And I got to tell you, the testimony of that I saw over and over again how he used that to show me over and over again how he was provisioned. So it would be like, we’d be short on a payroll, and then someone would pay way more money for that course than normal.        


Right? And I also remember, by the way, when somebody paid, I think it was, was it $0.50 or a dollar? And I remember feeling some kind of way. I felt some kind of way. And Lord said that was for those who are familiar with the scriptures around the Widow’s Might, that for that person was a massive sacrifice that I’m honoring because they want to do business with me.        


And after that, I was like, Say no more. You got it. Hands off. Do what you do. Right.        


So it’s just that willingness to yield to higher wisdom as we walk this stuff out. And when you’re learning something, so talking to the folks in sales who are learning, you’ll learn, like, these traditional sales methodologies and sales frameworks, and when you’re doing business in partnership with God, it’ll totally shift something for you. Or you might do something typically with five people, and then on the 6th one, he’s like, yeah, so with this one, I want you to do it this way. Will you yield right to the one who knows all the things? Yeah.        


And trust the outcomes to him, which, by the way, the outcome isn’t always the sale. Does somebody hear me? Like, oh, this was God, because I actually got the sale. It’s not not God, because there wasn’t a sale. Someone needed to hear that.        


I just got to add that in. Oh, I agree. I hear it a lot, even for myself. And doing sales and having sales conversations, and people will sometimes cry, and I’m like, why exactly are we crying right now? But it’s just I can’t tell you countless times where people have thanked me in a sales conversation, whether they say yay or nay for just listening.        


Yes, imagine that. Just for listening. Yes, just for listening. People actually listen to people, and I’m. Like, oh, okay, I can do that.        


Right. And so, again, like you said, the outcome isn’t always the sale. Sometimes you were just that person to listen, validate, maybe whatever they were feeling, and just help them move through to that next step. Yes. Another thing I know, wonderful seed.        


Sown and maybe you’re the one to. Get the water and then it moves on. Right. Sometimes you get to find out what happens, sometimes you don’t. It’s kind of like with salvation.        


Yeah, exactly. Same thing. I also think we have an opportunity. I know, for me, especially when we’re doing events, so a lot of times we’ll do event support, which means we talk to a whole bunch of people, like 72 hours as an introvert, I’m, like. You need a vacation after that.        


Yes. I have way too many people. I’ve learned now that after an event, the next day, schedule a massage, because, girl, it’s just too much. Yes, but in that because, again, we’re having conversations. And a lot of times those conversations aren’t sales conversations.        


They really are just connections just to have the opportunity to pray. So I’m. Meeting someone. And again, a lot of times I don’t know what it is about me, but people are telling me all their business. I’m like, I don’t have nothing to do while we hear and there are times when it’s like, zip it, allow them to share.        


And you just start praying over whatever that situation is that they’re sharing about whether it’s relevant to what we’re here to do. And so I think, again, to your point that it’s not always about the sale and we have this opportunity to interact with people. And for us at our agency, our goal is to give people a different sales experience. It doesn’t have to be where we beat you up and bully you. I never understood that, especially for coaches.        


You just bullied this person into working to you for a year. They’re going to have a whole attitude. It’s not going to be a fun experience, but okay.        


Yes, but a lot of these things, they get perpetuated. Because if you’ve got someone who has this visible sense of success around something that says, I have the blueprint for you, listen, I’m a seven figure this, I’m an eight figure this, and I have the blueprint for you if you just purchase it from me. And so we perpetuate it. And so then you buy into that and then you replicate because they said they had a blueprint. So it’s like so what do you do when you have a blueprint?        


You follow that thing step by step by step. Right. Then you get some semblance of success and then folks, well, I’m going to help. So it just continues to replicate itself, which is why I was excited to see you in this conversation and in this conversation differently because there’s a need for it. Yeah.        


Even when I this is my needs. To replicate, multiply for real. And I tell people, look, you’re not Nadia. I’ll have blueprint. I have a way that I do things.        


So take the work for you and add your sauce to it and do cassette. No, that’s it. So I’m a big believer in frameworks. I believe in Heaven has Blueprints for you that give you levels of specificity for the thing that you’re called to and how you flow. But people have really great frameworks to help you to think how to think and engage through things that will really help you move things along.        


I love it. Yes. Which actually leads me to because I think that it’s challenging because we do have a lot of blueprints and gurus and experts and all the people around. Copy and paste my thing. Here’s my swipe file.        


All you have to do is just copy and paste. I’m here to tell you that’s not all you have to do. And what happens when you’re called to do something different? Right. Yes.        


Then that’s a whole mess. And I’ll tell you as well as an engineering major, right. And we were big on formulas and blueprints. You had to follow it to get statements and all the things all of. That made sense for us when we were in college.        


But hello, we’re here. So one of the things you talked about was rest, which I think you can’t talk about enough for us, especially us in the US. God help us. But one of the stories you shared or one of the things you shared in your book, you talked about even your own experiences where God gave you a daytime vision right, and different work. But then one of the things that you shared was believe and anticipate that God will impart divine strategies, solutions, creative ideas and prophetic dreams while you’re being refreshed and restored through sleep.        


Imagine that. Sleep. Yes, sweet sleep. Scripture somewhere in Psalm that talks about the blessing that he gives you in your sleep. Yeah, but one thing that happens is when God gives you a divine strategy, that means there probably isn’t a Blueprint that someone else on social media now has for you.        


So talk to us about walking this thing out, being an agitator, a disruptor, a catalyst in the marketplace, and you start showing up on the scene talking about something completely different. And you don’t necessarily have where you can download, you don’t have a downloadable from the Internet. Right. Here’s your blueprint. Right?        


Yeah. Okay, so is the question: how are you navigating that when you’re bringing a different message in the marketplace? All right, so for me it’s just a matter of being unapologetic with the assignment. So I know that what comes with that is those who will disagree or those who might violently disagree or those types of things or might be intimidated by what you’re sharing because they do something else or they sell a different way or their message is something that’s completely counter or whatever. But I’m less interested in that and more interested in focusing in on there’s a reason why I’m supposed to show up like this because there’s people who need me to show up like this and so I’m just going to show up like this and let the chips fall where they may.        


Now, some people might hear that be like, well, that sounds easier said than done. But to me, it would be harder for me to then to operate outside of my design and assignment and to be essentially operating like somebody else than it is for me to deal with the challenges that come with operating and authenticity in alignment with how I’m supposed to be flowing. Right. So to me it’s a trade off that’s not even close to equal. And so I do know that it comes with some of that.        


But I mean, I’ve been called all kinds of charlatan and then you have mixed. So we have the aspect of the, it’s interesting because I’m coming from a Christ centered perspective, there’s whole aspects of those who share the same faith but because I’m having a conversation that’s connected to money that they’re rised up just because thinking that I am trying to take advantage of people just by existing, I’m trying to take advantage of people. Right? So you kind of deal with that aspect of things, and then you deal with the fact that some people are just like, well, you’re being too deep or too spiritual or too whatever, or whatever, but none of that stuff’s my business.        


That’s so good. None of that’s my business. And so I’m not saying it doesn’t hurt. It hurts to be called names or whatever, but still, it’s not an equal trade off for me to operate outside of design and assignment. I love it.        


I love it. Can we talk about money for a second? Because you mentioned that. And I believe that sometimes people of faith are more challenged than most when it comes to money and sales. And so those are probably some of the hardest conversations I have around charging the value of what it is provide and not tying that to your self worth, and it’s okay for you to make money.        


Talk to us around. I don’t even know. What do you have to say? I don’t even know what my question is. I just know we’re acknowledging that this is an issue.        


Okay? So, yes, this absolutely is an issue, but there’s always things that are underneath the reason why these things are issues. And so I’m interested in what’s underneath, like what’s going on in the mind and heart that leads to these conclusions. So that then you could then adjust and align your mind and heart with where it should be to continue to go on. Right?        


So when I think about folks, one of my triggering phrases, when people say, charge your worth, charge our worth, I says, I cannot stand it. That further perpetuates this idea that you’re just talking about that. So then people attach their charging to their worth. So if they don’t charge enough, god might be leading them to do something that’s at a way premium price, but they’ve tied their worth, and because they don’t feel worthy of that, they won’t. Then there’s people who feel more than worthy, but the Lord wants them to do something, like to serve an audience that actually can’t invest in that level.        


But then since you tied your worth to that, you’re thinking, oh, gosh, now that’s belittling myself. And I can’t belittle myself and devalue myself by operating in alignment with what God showed me. Right? So we have to detach. We have to detach these things.        


But it’s often like, I’ll do posts about this on social media once a year. I have a good, solid post on that charge your worth thing.        


What’s that? It’s in my book, too. I was like, you could never charge what you’re worth. You can’t charge your worth. Right?        


But whatever the mindset thing is, whether it’s an issue with charging or an issue with trying to figure out how much to charge or whether to charge versus not charge. There are some people who go into this freebie mode in perpetuity when they’re called to business. Right.        


People pay you, right. You’re called to business. Right? Business. Okay.        


So that means there’s a product and service that has a value attached. Then you are providing it, and somebody is paying for that. That is business. And so if you’re called to business, do business, please. Okay.        


Yes. But you know this, Nadia, because you work with people one on one and in group context, is that there’s a lie rooted in that thought process. Whatever the scenario is, there’s a lie that’s underneath that that leads to that. So really, to me, for me, I’m always trying to get underneath it to be like, okay, what’s the lie that you’re believing that’s leading to this? And now what’s the truth?        


Because the lie truth exchange. I talk about this in Grace Over Grind, the Lie Truth exchange, because this has implications in all the things. What’s the lie that you’re believing and what’s the truth that you need to know so then you can walk from that truth, and even if it’s uncomfortable for you, you’ll grow into it right. Aligned with the truth as opposed to operating from a lot. It’s crazy.        


I remember when you and I worked together, that was some of our big work. You would often ask, is that true? Yes. Well, now that you mentioned, that’s not really actually true. No, that’s not yeah, we tell ourselves things all the time that aren’t true.        


We have whole fairy tales going on. Then it’s a projection. It’s like faith in the thing that’s like it’s not even true. Yeah. So to me, all of those things, it’s just because it’s rooted in some lie somewhere.        


And I believe that the dynamic that people are challenged with in terms of Christ followers is because you add on top of that the layer of misunderstanding or misappropriation of scripture and stuff like that. And so you have that dynamic added. Someone who doesn’t engage in the Bible, they might have their other issues, but they don’t have the holy book that they’re their lives by and then trying to navigate in the truth of that. Word, trying to build a business and fit through the eye of a needle.        


So we had to get aligned with truth so that we got to be aligned with truth. Oh, my gosh. So I could talk to you all day, obviously.        


So as we bring our conversation to a close, what is on your heart? I’ll leave it open to you. What is on your heart to share with the listeners around sales and doing business with God and Grace Over Grind. I’m just going to hand that mic back over. Sure.        


So I want to encourage everyone listening to embrace this invitation that is before you to do business with God. I also want you to know that even if you’re like, well, I don’t overwork. I don’t grind. I’m not working 80 hours a week and 50 hours a week. It’s not about how many hours you work.        


So those who are thinking that that’s what the grind is, it’s not. It’s working primarily in your own strength, which you can do 10 hours a week. So if you’re only working 10 hours a week, it would be way better and way more productive if you were doing business with God for that 10 hours a week than you doing business primarily in your own strength, limited by your own wisdom, experience, and following such and such as Blueprint for 10 hours a week, right? Okay. So I want everybody to embrace this invitation.        


It will completely change. It doesn’t just change you in business. It actually changes you in life, because you realize that this is actually a lifestyle. This isn’t just how I do business, but this is actually how you do life. So it’s grace over grind as a spouse, as a parent, as an employee, if you work for a corporation, as a business owner, right?        


Whatever it is that’s the invitation is to what did I say in the message? Walk with me, work with me, keep company with me. Right. It’s a lifestyle. And so I want to encourage you to do that.        


So I encourage you to get the book, but don’t just get it. Read it. Answer the questions that are in it. Engage God with the questions that are in it, and live that thing out. Read it more the same, because you need reminders, stark reminders.        


Yeah. There’s people who are like, they listen to the audiobook, and they’re like, I listen to the audiobook every week. That’s a good idea. It’s only an hour and 51 minutes. I listen to this thing every week, and God will point out something new for me each week to help me to continue to walk this out.        


And it is. I call it the Wild and Crazy and Amazing Adventure with God. This isn’t about the destination. This is about the journey. Or I like to call it the adventure of really walking this out and growing in it, because there’s always more in God.        


So I just want to encourage you to embrace that, please. And, yeah, it’ll change the game for you. It certainly changed it for me and many others. Many others right here, Dr. Nadia included.        


Included. Oh, my gosh. So how can people connect with you? Where can they get copies of this amazing book so they can get their whole lives together? Sure, if you go to GraceOverGrind.com, that will connect you to, you could go to Amazon, but if you go to Graceovergrind.com, there’s all the links there for you to connect there, including connect with me.        


And I’m certainly on social media, mostly on Facebook and LinkedIn and Instagram, so you can connect with me there as well. Yay. Thank you, Shae. Absolutely. Thanks for having me.        


My old college bud, I was like, do you think this would be a good fit? And you’re like, duh, let’s go. Yeah, totally. Good fit. Yes.        

            So thank you all for joining us for another episode of Straight Talk About Sales. Don’t forget, head over to GraceOverGrind.com, grab your book, let us know how it has changed your life, because it will, no doubt about it. And we’ll see you again soon. Take care.